Ghyll talk:WhereIsWhere

Actually, the Adlorst entry does not suggest anything about the proximity of Evesque and the Sarfelogians, just that both are places where the grapes grow. --DrBacchus 07:57, 25 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ah, indeed it dosn't. Thanks! I'll incorporate that into the next change. --Sean B. Palmer 08:03, 25 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Okay, so as the map shows, there are already some quite obvious problems. For a start, the Vale of Surdoch is so far away from Cranee that it doesn't actually make any sense at all to describe its whereabouts in relation to Cranee--it's far closer to Folktown. Admittedly, some of the map is merely conjecture, for example the Vale itself is only mentioned in relation to the Battle of Barnum Stones so I'm not a hundred percent sure that it's the 25 lele south of Cranee that it is on the map. Also, I've put the Cataract Road running through Sejfeld (which I spelled wrong; whoops)... that was a bit of an accident really, and it came from Sejfeld being placed where it was because of Lady Bavarian moving closer and closer to Folktown. So that's just tentative and may be moved around. Marsh Gibbon is, however, ten miles (shall we get Arnia to change that to sugro-nanits?) north-west of Folktown, so that configuration at the very least must be correct.

The main problem then is that the Vale of Surdoch is stated as being very close to the land of Alezan... sigh. Couple that with the fact that we've got a largish town close to Folktown that's only been mentioned once in all of the lexicon so far (Egron), a sea whose whereabouts we're not so a-where of yet, and many, many places that can't even be incorporated into the map yet, and we have quite a bit of work to do. It's a good thing that we started this early on in the game because the inconsistencies in direction can really creep in. --Sean B. Palmer 09:30, 25 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Devil's advocate, but I may describe something as "being next to the big rock" as opposed to "across the street from Friendly's" - they're both the same location, but I'm more familiar with the rock (perhaps I played on it in my youth). Similarly, if I live in Cranee, it's natural for my worldview to center around ME, not other towns that may be actually closer (long justification short, the description doesn't bother me that much...) I think part of this inconsistency could be solved by moving the Vale near where Marsh Gibbon is, and bringing Alezan "down" a bit more. The new location for the vale would also still be close enough for a troupe of soldiers to walk that far from the Battle. --Morbus Iff 11:48, 25 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I dunno... it still doesn't strike me as "suspiciously close" to Alezan then, as Bordingbras his Hatt! says. If the Vale is suspiciously close to Alezan, then most of Ghyll is suspiciously close to Alezan too. It's better'n nowt, of course, so that should be the very minimum solution. It's kinda a shame that leles were defined to be so huge; the other solution would be to have Chesix System Of Measures be declared inconsistent. --Sean B. Palmer 11:56, 25 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Stardate: supplementary. The other obvious point is that Cranee should be due west of the Evesque Valley, and Alezan to the west and south-west of it. That'd make an almost completely new map, but I think it'd be consistent with the lexicon so far. --Sean B. Palmer 11:59, 25 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Wait, Cranee is west of the Evesque Valley? When did that happen? --Morbus Iff 12:23, 25 Sep 2004 (EDT)

It's not necessarily west, but I'm saying that that's a possible solution. Cranee can't be north of the Evesque Valley, and Alezan is due west of the Evesque Valley, therefore Cranee can't be north of Alezan. Alezan is contiguous with the Evesque Valley, and Cranee is 25 sugro-nanits frmo the Evesque Valley, therefore (depending on the size of Alezan), Cranee is going to be many sugro-nanits away from Alezan or possibly right next to it, but since it can never be north of Alezan and we know that the Vale is south of Cranee, the Vale must be further away from Alezan than Cranee, and at least at a distance of 35 miles or so, and possibly more. Since Cranee is directly between the Evesque Valley and Folktown, Folktown must be in the suspicious zone, no matter where we place it. I've sketched out all the possible bands for places on a mini-map, and I think the closest that the Vale could come to Alezan is if Cranee were due west of Alezan (which would put Folktown even further due west, so it wouldn't really be consistent since the Evesque Valley is meant to be in the north of Ghyll), but it actually doesn't solve the problem, it's just the least bad choice from one particular aspect. --Sean B. Palmer 12:30, 25 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Hey, all I know is, now that some other sucker, er, "volunteer" has started on the map, I consider myself absolved, at least for the time being. When the tectonic shifts quiet down, I'll get 'round to making it "pretty". (Dodged a bullet there, eh?) --Doctor Phineas Crank 12:34, 25 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Well, what happened is that first Morbus asked Joe to make a map, but he got Cartographer's Nerves, so then he asked me to make one in conjunction with him, but I said I needed a Where's Where first. Then there was the thread on Talk:Cartographer's Nerves, but I decided it'd still be rather difficult to do without the Where's Where so I sat down and did it myself. Now that I've done so, I thought I may as well extend it to plotting out some of the basics of the world so far as we already know it, which is the reason for the draft map--which is only a structural map, and certainly not in the least indicative of how I'd like the proper Ghyll map to be.

So the situation is that we'd still like you to do the prettying, as you correctly deduce, if you're still up to it, but it'd also be nice if you had any input on the minutia that we're currently discussing too. I've been wanting the map to be hand-drawn, but Morbus very much wants to make sure that the map is easily maintainable and so he won't let me do any finished product for a Ghyll map that isn't done in a cartographic program of some sort. I can't say I fully agree with it, but I see his point, and it's absolutely fine since you've volunteered to help! --Sean B. Palmer 12:42, 25 Sep 2004 (EDT)